Big cars for Dummies!!!!

Technical Assistance for Super Pro and other non-junior related Drag Racing Classes

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Big cars for Dummies!!!!

Postby poissant » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:21 pm

Ok instead of making multiple posts with dumb questions. I'm gonna consolidate them all here. So for you experenced guys, check here often I got tons of dumb questions! smiley-mrgreen .......... Ok here we go.......

Carb spacers! From what I read these can be used to tune your car and give it more power. Is there a standard spacer I should go with initially? If so what should it be 1"? Open Spacer or 4 hole Dominator 4500? Whould you always use at least a 'base" spacer?

Carb Studs: Do yall use these instead of backing in and out of the manifold? if so what length would you recommend?

Header and head ports: When we bought this chassis the previously owner included a new set of Hooker Jet Hot coated BBC headers. On our motor we have the square ports on our Merlin heads. The Hooker headers are round ports(the round ports are bigger than the sqaure ports on the head). Are these headers useable for our engine? Any pros? cons?......

Ok enough for one day.
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Postby Steve from Pa » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:09 pm

IMO
The spacer question depends on your manifold, cam and heads, cubic inch, and ......probably a hundred other things. I don't think anyone can tell you right off which spacer combo is going to work with all of the other variables. It's a trail and error kind of thing. From what I've seen: if your manifold is on the smaller size for the engine combo (as in CI and Rpms) it may like a 1 hole open spacer and maybe even a 2 inch one. If the carb intake engine combo is a little oversized it may like a 4 hole spacer, which sometime helps the signal on the boosters which normally makes the motor more responsive.

I like studs in everything that I can put them in. You only need a full nut on the top and in the case on the manifold I’d put a little anti-seize on the threads and then bottom them out in the manifold.

Headers : the larger header opening normally is better. It gives you a anti reversion step, - especially good if it's on the short side (the bottom of the port). An 1/8" is great, what size are the headers, and how much is the mismatch?

....again this is my opinion, not necessarily the truth...........
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Postby poissant » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:06 pm

Steve,
Yeah I figured the spacer question maybe be a trial and error type of thing. I intend to ask my engine builder for his recomendation, but I wanted to get you guys thoughts also. Our engine is a 497, it has a Merlin X manifold and the Merlin III heads. The headers I have are Hooker headers, I measured the port opening and it's 2 ". I don't know if I am measuring the square port correctly or not but it measures 1 7/8 by 1 5/8



Update : Monday Sep 10th----I spoke with my engine builder and he recomended with the manifold I have to go with the 1" open spacer. So I guess I'll use that as a starting point.
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Postby Pool Man » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:59 pm

Gary, are you going to be putting a throttle stop on this engine?
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Postby poissant » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:22 pm

Ron,
I guess at this point I'm not real sure what we will do. Since the engine is not even in the car yet we don't how it will run. The intention is to run the car in Super Pro locally and some Super Comp at the divisionals. Why do ask? Curious Cajun's need to know! smiley-lol
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Postby Pool Man » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:36 pm

Just something else to think abt. when deciding what intake or spacers to use. If you are going to run a throttle stop then you will have the four holes and butterflies. Not sure how this would play into having an open chamber intake or closed chamber or open spacers instead of the holed spacers. If you are going to run in Supper Comp. you will probably have to run a throttle stop to slow it down.
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Postby poissant » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:04 pm

Were just gonna dabble in a little Super Comp racing, just so I can participate in the divisional held at our local track and also the Sportsnational at No Problem Raceway(our home track). I figured the electronic stuff would handle the delay for Super Comp. Now if we are just too fast with this little engine then I guess we would trottle stop it or maybe adjust the timing?.....Don't laugh guys, I'm green to the big car stuff!
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Postby 3dracing » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:16 am

Gary, if you run Super Comp you will be too fast. I have tried several types of stops and I like The #1 Stop for the throttle stop and we have a Dedenbear for the starting line controller.


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Postby 3dracing » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:18 am

If you run a baseplate stop you will probably want an open spacer.


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Postby poissant » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:46 am

Ok Steve you bring up some more questions I have.....Electronics?

This is a link from Dedenbear for what I see is the Baseplate stop, is this what you are talking about

http://dedenbear.com/TXTtsBase.htm

I would presume this would go where the carb spacer would be? Now I guess the next question would be CO2 or electric? I'm thinking electric would be the way to go?

Then I guess the next question would be the delay box? What kind? Pros? Con? Below is another link from Dedenbear, would these units handle the delay functions as well as the throttle stop control? is it purely a preference thing when comparing these units to say a Biondo unit?

http://dedenbear.com/lightning.htm

Ok one more question exactly how does crosstalk work? I have never understood that? smiley-embarassed
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Postby Speedracer_323X » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:46 pm

I am using a dedenbear electric throttle stop only covering the secondary side. I had a 2 inch spacer then when we went to the throttle stop just used it in place for the spacer.

Most people seem to going to the Biondo Mega 450 box. I have never used it but it seems to be the newest and most trusted box. Currently I am using a Procube box which is working good for now.

Crosstalk is used only during Eliminations. What happens is instead of having to look over at your opponents top bulb to leave, both top bulbs light will come on. You still have to but in your opponents dial-in in th box. This was but in so the blinders could cover all ambers. Now if you are the faster can and do not want crosstalk (ex. leave off your top bulb, or Middle bulb) then most tracks have you put an "N" beside the dial. Hopefully you can understand that.
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Postby Pool Man » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:11 pm

We also use the Pro Cube. Very nice unit. It does everything. I will even wipe your....................nose. Well, maybe not that good but, it is a nice unit. We run a Deadenber air operated throttle stop with butterflies in the primary and secondary.
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Postby 3dracing » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:33 am

Gary a lot of it has to do with how much room you have in the dash. We use a Lightning delay box but if I had room I would use the Command center. Yes that is a base-plate stop but I like the #1 air stop better. We also use an inline Dedenbear stop for the starting line controller. Cross Talk around here are only on division or National event tracks. The top Ambers come on at the same time so you see the tree like time trials. The other two bulbs come on like a regular full tree with dial-ins.


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Postby poissant » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:42 am

Ok that brings up another question! The dashboard, right now I have a blank slate to work with.LOL What gages do I need on the dashboard? In your opinion what are the "have to have" and "nice to have" gages. Again in yall's opinion and experience who makes a nice set of gages to use? What about the rest of the wiring needed? Who makes a good setup for the switches and wiring needed?..........
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Postby 3dracing » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:15 am

If you have to wire it Pro-Cube makes the best set up. It has all the wiring labled and a relay block. Very easy to use. We have a oil pressure with low pressure light, water temp, volt meter, trans temp, and two small guages for the c02. and a tach.


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Postby M&E Racing » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:55 am

I don't know about everyone esle, but I am really enjoying this thread. You can learn a lot right here.

Gary is asking the same type of questions that I am going to be asking in a couple of years and this is kind of helping me get a head start. Knowledge is power!

Now back to our regular scheduled programming.....
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Postby poissant » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:18 pm

Andy,
You mean their is another "dummy" out there like me.LOL....This has been a big learning process for us(my son and I). I have funded some of the stuff(engine,trailer,chassis updates). But he is funding the rest to finish the car, so there is some buy in from him. Plus he is majoring in mechanical engineering at college so it's been able to relate some of these things to his classwork....
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Postby Steve from Pa » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:53 pm

Personally I wouldn't pick a delay box because it's easier to wire, but I understand were you were going with that. It's just a personal preference thing.......myself, I really like the Mega boxes ....I just like the way their set up.

I've never done any throttle stop racing so I don't really know much about the plate stops, but I'm suprised to hear all the talk them......I was under the impression they aren't that popular any more.......I do like using the inline stop and Mega boxes starting line enhancer for brackets.......double hitting and bumping down..... smiley-cool
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Postby 3dracing » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:34 am

I wasn't talkinng about the Pro-Cube delay box. They make a wireing kit that comes with a relay block all you have to do is run I think a #2 hot wire and ground to it and all the secondary wires are all numbered and labled where they go, throttle stop,fuel pump, fan, water pump etc. I like the Dedenbear delay box because to me they are more user friendly. The base plate stop seems to repeat more often than an in line stop.



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Postby SideWinder » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:20 pm

Poissant

There is another dummy out here....ME!! I'm learning too. We were able to run our big dragster some last year but had some problems. Took it apart over the winter and found out that the motor (461 BB) was in sad shape. Decided to buy a used motor and have had more trouble than I care to admit with it. It was on the dyno 4 times and we had a problem each time!! The last time I was re-torquing the heads and a head stud stripped. The block was cracked from the head bolt over a water port. After some long discussions on what to do we decided to make a boat anchor out of the block and buy a new one. It should be delivered tomorrow. Now we get to start all over. Talk about some unnecessary experience. Looks like this year is a wash.

I have a Biondo 450 box. Very easy to use and very easy to wire. Since I didn't have a motor to run this summer I decided to rewire the car. The box was simple.
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